jhkimrpg ([info]jhkimrpg) wrote,
@ 2005-10-18 21:36:00
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New Player Finder Utility
Via [info]memento_mori, [info]nikotesla, and [info]amanofhats ...

So, Clinton Nixon has opened a new utility for finding nearby RPG players, As far as I can see, this is superior to nearly all similar utilities out there -- unless I'm missing something. It queries FreeGeo (which in turn queries Google Maps) to find latitude and longitude, and thus calculate geographic distance to find nearest gamers. It also shows you when the poster was last active -- and allows you to send to them without posting their email address for spammers or others to harvest. Plus he's openly distributing the source. Here are the competitors that I've seen:
Access Denied
This is a large database, with ostensibly 13594 listings -- but it includes boardgamers and others, and many are out of date. It also hands out your email, and can only search by text match of city name.
White Wolf Game Finder
This has over 8000 listings for the U.S. plus international. It hands out your email, but you can search by state or player-entered "Metro City Area".
Palladium Gamers Registry
This is classified by country and state, and just a flat page otherwise. It has 1529 entries in the U.S., and again broadcasts your email. All entries for a state are listed together on one page.
Steve Jackson Games Gamer and Store Finder
This allows searching by city name, zip code, and/or country. It again hands out email, but also includes game stores as well as gamers. It currently has 769 entries.
Eden Games Player Registry
This has only 470 listings, and now has some broken links, but at least it gave the option to not openly post your email.
Wizards of the Coast Community: RPG Gamer Classifieds
This is a lousy alternative -- post on a board, and you can't even be accurately searched. A sticky suggests formating your subject line as State, City -- but no one follows that, so sorting is useless. About the best that can be said is that it has high visibility.
RPGnet Forum: Gaming Gatherings
Ditto for this, but it should be mentioned, I guess.
ENWorld Forum: Gamers Seeking Gamers
Another posting board on a high visibility forum.
It says something that Wizards of the Coast has a sucky posting board as its official way to find players; while Palladium, White Wolf, and Eden have so-so utilities; and indie games have the best. In short, sign up on FindPlay.

What I'd love to do is add to it an engine which points you to related entries in at least some of these other databases. I'd also like an optional field to give a webpage link, and possibly one for brief notes or requests. I'm also slightly troubled by the "Last Played" since with only three slots it can make me look radically different depending from month to month. (i.e. I've played D&D, Parlor Larp, Dogs in the Vineyard, HarnMaster, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer in the past two months, say. Depending on which three out of those go up, my gaming may seem quite different.)



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[info]zdashamber
2005-10-19 05:24 am UTC (link)
Excelente. I look forward to it gaining ground. Currently every one of the 4-5 people listed in my area wants to try out PTA. Not a bad thing, but a skewed sample, methinks...

I was signed up with Access Denied for many months, but the mass amount of spam I got from the e-mail account I devoted to it caused me to delete the address.

It would be nice if Findplay someday allowed you to search by game and then location. I could also ask for statistics posted on the numbers of mentions each game gets, just for the sake of curiosity.

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Doesn't SJ Games also have such a system?
(Anonymous)
2005-10-19 08:59 am UTC (link)
At least the used to have a "game finder" function, but it may have been disabled. IIRC it was not specific to RPGS, but covered card games and board games as well.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org

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[info]jeregenest
2005-10-19 11:52 am UTC (link)
I found it rather weak. It doesn't display location. 35 miles is a long way in an urban area. For example someone south of Boston (Quincy for example)just 20 miles from my location would be very unwillng to play in a game I run in nort metro-Boston (Medford). The commute home would kill them on a average week night game.

I'd also wish for more robust profiling.

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[info]jhkimrpg
2005-10-19 03:05 pm UTC (link)
Well, sure, there are a lot of enhancements that I'd like out of it. However, the point is to compare it to its competition. None of the others even measure distance at all!

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[info]jeregenest
2005-10-19 04:10 pm UTC (link)
I consider Access Denied's text search of city name to be a better feature because at least that gives me judgment capability. I don't like Access Denied for a lot of other reasons (ugly, ugly layout) but I really consider user ability to quickly gauge feasibility by seeing a location a major advantage.

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(Anonymous)
2005-10-19 04:31 pm UTC (link)
The problem you point out with a 35 mile range applies to all major metro areas. As I live in one too, I have to agree that a city search is a better idea.

The number of active users is the biggest draw of course. Until a site reaches the point where you can actually get results from a search, it's useless no matter who well designed it it. Only time will tell with this new entry.


-gleichman

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35 miles
[info]vaxalon
2005-10-19 06:12 pm UTC (link)
In rural areas, 35 miles isn't enough!

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[info]jhkimrpg
2005-10-19 06:40 pm UTC (link)
Hrm. If it just allowed variations (i.e. 5 mile, 10 mile, 20 mile, 40 mile, 80 mile) that should cover it, right? That seems like an easy enhancement. The key thing is that it validates getting a geographic location when you enter in your location. If you enter in a mispelled or unclear location, it gives an error.

A critical problem with text search is that there is no regularity or checking to the entries. So, for example, you have to search separately for "NYC" and "New York" -- not to mention mispellings, variations, and so forth. For me personally, using Access Denied is a nightmare since I am in a region with lots of small towns. I have to enter in separately "Redwood City", "Palo Alto", "San Carlos", "San Mateo", "Woodside", and dozens of others to get the nearby geographic area.

As for active users -- well, that's why I'm plugging it on my blog. I would like to encourage more people to go and use the site which has the best functionality. Also, being open source is extremely nice since it hopefully will be easy for other people to contribute bug fixes and enhancements.

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(Anonymous)
2005-10-19 07:16 pm UTC (link)
The site could use a bit more description of what to enter. A full address with zip code for example would give much better results than just Dallas TX. As is, I don't think 35 miles is likely to mean 35 miles in any meaningful manner.

Of course I have no idea as to the limits of the call to the search engine it's operating under. Full address may not be possible.

Plugging it on websites is likely the best way for it to gather people to sign on. I notice that to search it you have to in effect enter yourself into it. This venus fly-trap approach will help some.
But it's disheartening to request a search on Dallas and come up blank.

-gleichman

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(Anonymous)
2005-10-19 03:55 pm UTC (link)
Zip entries for anyone near me. As expected, a random sampling of other cities show mostly Forge people so far (judging by the game lists anyway). I'm almost willing to bet that this was really its entire expected/intended market. It even plugs the Forge.

Will be interesting to see if it attracts a more numerous and diverse listing set in the future. Until then, it's of no use to me.

I do like the hiding of email addresses however.

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[info]crnixon
2005-10-19 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Hey, John - thanks for posting this.

Just to let people know, I will be enhancing this. This is like an 0.1 version of the software.

Currently to do:
- Search by radius (5, 10, 15, 20, whatever miles)
- Retrieve your password (because that was a stupid oversight)
- Match people based on interest. That is, not only "you like game X and he likes game X" but also "you like game X, and he likes game Y and 10 people who liked X liked Y so, hey, good match."

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[info]jhkimrpg
2005-10-19 09:51 pm UTC (link)
Cool. One question -- I've checked out the source code, and I'm pretty sure I could help with this. How would you prefer to handle bug fixes and/or enhancements that other people contribute? Heck, maybe it could be made into a SourceForge project?

Notably, I'm pretty good at data parsing scripts. As an enhancement, I could supply a separate database table for "related links". I could supply the data and scripts that parse and classify the data from all the other player DBs like White Wolf, SJG, Palladium. Then below the main links in a match, you could show nearby entries from all the other databases as an option along with a link to the database.

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[info]crnixon
2005-10-19 11:04 pm UTC (link)
I think SourceForge is a great idea. I'll put this up on there and then we can hack at it. I've seen your data parsing-fu, and it is good.

I like the "Find me at" idea for links a lot.

The source code is really small and easy, isn't it? Man, I love Rails.

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[info]ewilen
2005-10-20 05:03 am UTC (link)
Ah, a little bit like BoardGameGeek, only better, maybe.

But it will work better when your tastes are truly represented by the games you like--if you're into focused games, then whatever subset of those that you enjoy might say a lot about you. If you like games that are (or have to be) interpreted in a variety of ways, you might need some other way of identifying people with similar tastes.

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SJ Games Gamer Finder
(Anonymous)
2005-10-24 09:48 pm UTC (link)
The SJ Games Gamer Finder actually has 976 gamers and 224 stores listed, all of which have been updated in the last four months. The page automatically pokes anyone listed to update their entry, so we know they're reasonably current.

Good point about the visible email address, though. I'll see if we can get that taken care of.

Paul Chapman
Marketing Director
Steve Jackson Games
paul@sjgames.com

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Re: SJ Games Gamer Finder
[info]jhkimrpg
2005-10-24 11:41 pm UTC (link)
Aha! Good to know about the automatic poking. I know that AccessDenied and Eden certainly don't do that. I wasn't actually familiar with the SJ Games finder until Peter Knutsen referred me to it during this thread, and I've only just now signed up.

The SJ Games finder allows searching based on first three digits of zip code -- which is required info for the entry -- as well as city and state. So that approximates the latitude/longitude based calculation, though the first three digits can be a pretty broad area, and it won't be accurate if you're next to a zone line. But at least it gives an option in addition to text searching.

Incidentally, I would suggest that you ask for full five-digit zip code even if search still is on the first three digits. That way you allow for potentially more accurate searches in the future. (P.S. I have a open source zip code database that provides latitude, longitude, and a sorted list of the nearest 100 other zipcodes for each zipcode.)

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Sign up on FindPlay?
[info]mythusmage
2005-11-10 05:34 am UTC (link)
I'd like to, but the fucker won't let me. I fill out everything, press the button, and get something about nul values or some such crap.

Machine: Macintosh (1998 model iMac)
OS: 9
Browser: Netscape 7

Nota Bene: No money to upgrade with unless I get donations.

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Re: Sign up on FindPlay?
[info]jhkimrpg
2005-11-10 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Hrm. Well, I don't directly maintain it, so I would email Clinton (cf. his website at http://www.anvilwerks.com/ ).

I would cut-and-paste the exact error message to send to him if you want. I know that it's working for other people, so I suspect an incompatibility with your older software. Sorry about that.

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rgregregregreregregregregergegregre
(Anonymous)
2008-09-19 12:54 pm UTC (link)
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