jhkimrpg ([info]jhkimrpg) wrote,
@ 2008-03-17 10:43:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:game culture

What makes me a gamer?
So some thoughts on the RPG community and subculture. This was inspired by some other discussions -- this time I'm putting links on the bottom, since I want to emphasize my positive message first.

What makes a subculture?

Gary Alan Fine, in his book Shared Fantasy: Role Playing Games as Social Worlds , analyzed the gaming community in 1979 as a subculture. He defined a subsociety as a collection of individuals who have importance as a distinctive segment of society -- and a "subculture" as a subsociety where there is (1) a network of communication, (2) self-identification as a group, and (3) identification by those outside the group.

Why am I a part?

So for role-players, the key activities would be the games themselves, and communicating in a network of people who play. That would obviously include being a regular in online forums, but one can connect to the network in other ways, just so long as the chain eventually connects to the central sphere of gamers. So a group who just talk among themselves aren't part of the larger subculture. However, if a few of the group connect to large forums, then they are part of it. Those more central to the subculture may spend more time gaming, participate in online discussions, write gaming articles, and/or self-publish their own games.

For myself, I obviously communicate with other RPG players -- through my LJ, various forums, my webpage, and a few conventions. I also identify myself as a gamer. (My license plate says "RPGNERD", for example.) I would say that the main reason I consider myself a gamer is that I play games with others and also talk about games with a community of those who play. I remember being distinctly surprised when Lee in my group said in conversation that she wasn't a gamer -- I felt that by regularly playing games with others, one was a gamer. (She clarified that by "gamer" she meant someone who played video/computer games, which is the more common understanding of the term.)

I could compare this to other subcultures. For example, I am more marginally a part of the Korean-American subculture. I connect to a network through my Korean relatives and subscribing to KoreAm magazine. I identify myself as Korean-American, and others identify me as such. I have some other hobbies, though not as involved as gaming. These days, I don't identify myself as a singer, even though I sing fairly well, because I don't sing in groups often enough to feel it significant. I have in the past been involved in theater as well, though the theater groups I was in were somewhat isolated from any broader scene.

I know a little bit about a few other subcultures by proxy, like the poetry scene and the queer scene (at least in the Bay Area).

What is distinctive about the gamer subculture?

Demographically, gamers tend towards white, suburban, middle-class. They are often college-educated. Within the U.S., they are notably strong in the Midwest, but are pretty widely spread. Religiously, they are mixed with many being agnostic, but with a over-represented minority of pagans. As seen in "Psychological Studies on Role-Playing Games", the general trend is that tabletop role-players tend slightly towards introversion but strongly towards openness to experience (cf. Big Five Personality Traits). There is a trend of estrangement from mainstream culture, which basically means they watch less of the most popular television programs and magazines.

Beyond this, there are a host of traits that most readers are probably aware of. Gamers tend to dress informally in t-shirts and such, similar to sports fans though with different icons. They are not very physically fit, not surprising for a sedentary hobby, and no more pronounced than what I've seen of other sedentary hobbies. They strongly enjoy and prefer science fiction and fantasy, overlapping heavily with SF/F and comic book fandom.

Personally, I'm at least as comfortable in the general gamer scene as I am in other social groups -- including subcultures like a Korean-American crowd or theater geeks, or mainstream culture like going out to a local sports bar or club. I do have things that I am not happy about, but most of them are specific to my tastes rather than universal improvements.

The one dissatisfaction that comes to mind for me is lack of women. Broadly speaking, I'm fine with having gender biased space. For example, I'm fine with predominantly female gatherings like WisCon or BlogHer. I'm also fine with male-dominant spaces like men's movement gatherings or guys' nights out, as long as there aren't real-world perks hinged on them (i.e. like male-only golf games that make business connections). However, I find that within gaming, I enjoy a more gender split like AmberCon NorthWest.

Of course, there are lots of other things I would wish for. At conventions, I'd like better organization, more social activities, and better kids programs or child care -- but that's just sort of a general wish for better stuff. Similarly, there are a lot of hypothetical RPGs that I would like to see published. I would also prefer less division of camps in online discussion. I would describe those more as wishes than dissatisfaction, though.

Dissatisfaction with the Gamer Subculture/Community

This post was inspired by some recent comments about gamer subculture. Matt Snyder posted in "Dice Quixote" that he wanted to play role-playing games, but not participate in the surrounding subculture apart from the games. I discussed some interesting points in the comments to that with Lisa Fleishman. Keith Senkowsky followed up in "Amused..." saying, "Snyder has been accused of saying the subculture is beneath him (which he did not say). Well I am saying it. The subculture is beneath me. How you like them apples?" In response, Stuart Robertson started a thread on "The Myth of Gamer Subculture" on Story Games, and a parallel thread on theRPGsite.

There have, of course, been other negative comments on the gamer subculture in the past. However, they are often not consistent. For example, quite the opposite of Synder's point, Ron Edwards has criticized the tendency of gamers to not socialize outside of games -- notably in his often self-referenced 2002 Forge thread on "Social Context", where he suggested that participating in more out-of-game activities with other gamers was healthier than just playing. Others, more like Snyder, have claimed that gamers socialize together too much -- to the extreme of "doing everything together".

These clash both with my own impressions and the psychological studies of gamers that I've seen. I have seen nothing to indicate that gamers on average have any greater problems than the general population. They have a slight introversion tendency, but it is not pronounced, nor is introversion a flaw. I have seen both gamers who treat their games as a casual night out without socializing otherwise, and gamers who are a closely-knit social group with the people they play with. I don't think see a problem with either behavior. This is not to say that gamers don't have their problems, but then so does everyone.



(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-17 07:04 pm UTC (link)
I didn't see Keith's blog post until today. As you can see, I still don't have a LiveJournal account. How you like *THEM* apples?! :)

Stuart

(Reply to this)


[info]mearls
2008-03-17 07:29 pm UTC (link)
I find the indie/Forge disdain of the gaming subculture baffling. They're clearly a subculture within the gaming subculture. IMNSHO, a lot of its smacks of "My subculture is better than yours." The Indie/Forge view of the subculture seems to fixate on the outlying cases. I've been to plenty of cons and, while there's always catpissman in the corner, the staggering majority of people I've met have been plain, old fashioned geeks. If wearing a Green Lantern t-shirt is grounds for banishment to the gaming subculture basement then feel free to show me the door.

I think much of what drives embracing gaming as subculture lies in how alienated one is from mainstream culture. IME, there's a vast difference between the casual gamer who plays RPGs, but also likes mainstream TV, football, NASCAR, and so on. I think the more you dislike the mainstream, the more you embrace the alternative.

I also think that drives stuff that I do find actively annoying in our subculture ("freaking the mundanes") is like an indicator of your dissatisfaction with mainstream society. The more you hate it, the more you're aggressive about putting gaming in people's faces.

Overall, I think our subculture is a great thing. I've lived in three different major cities since I've graduated college, and I've found networks of friends in each place due to gaming. If you're on the geeky end of things and are new to a city, looking for a game group to join is the best way to make a bunch of friends fast.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]buddha_davis
2008-03-17 07:56 pm UTC (link)
I don't think that there's a general indie disdain of the gaming subculture... I self-identify as an indie gamer, and I love the subculture. I could be wrong, but it's not the feeling I get from what little I know of the DC/NoVA gaming scene.

I think what some of these folks are trying to get to is a place where there is /no/ subculture because everyone takes gaming for granted, like we do playing monopoly with the family or watching cool/bad movies with friends...

Again, that's my take on it, which may be mistaken. If that is what they're saying though, I think that'd be cool, but I think everyone needs something they can geek out on, if only because there's too much cool stuff out there for any one person to really delve into alone, so having friends who are anime geeks, and history geeks, and bicycle geeks means I get exposed to lots of cool stuff, and get to admire and respect and call on my friends for the things they love!

Damn, that was one run on sentence. I think I'll let it stand, though. It seems to me that having both people who love the subculture and people who are trying to get us into the mainstream culture is good for the hobby!

Buddha

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-17 08:41 pm UTC (link)
I suspect you're right about there being no general indie-gaming disdain for the rest of gaming. It's just some of the biggest presences in that scene do have noisy hates on for the rest. I have the impression that folks like Ron and Matt feel that their thing can't really come into its own until Mike's and my thing is broken down and cleared away - not that they're the same thing but that they compete for a particular kind of mental and social niche.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jeregenest
2008-03-18 01:52 am UTC (link)
Your just being nice. I prefer the term self-hatred.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-18 05:26 am UTC (link)
I'm leery of assuming that, or diagnosing it, in people I'm predisposed to dislike. Not to say that I never do it, but I need more motivation than I'm likely to get from other people making games.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-19 10:05 am UTC (link)
That's cause you're a big geek.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]the_tall_man
2008-03-18 07:01 am UTC (link)
"I don't think that there's a general indie disdain of the gaming subculture."

I do, very much so.

That is, in fact, part of why I hesitate to self-identify as "indie".

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-17 07:59 pm UTC (link)
I'd pretty much come across as the "casual gamer" you describe above... but at the same time, here I am chatting with the rest of you geeks about RPGs, posting on other forums, writing games, etc.

I'm not sure where I posted this before, but if you haven't seen it already have a look at 56 Geeks: http://www.flickr.com/photos/scottjohnson/2086153791/sizes/o/

Those casual gamer geeks might be TV geeks, Sports geeks, and NASCAR geeks too. :)

The "freaking the mundanes" is particularly amusing -- you don't know what people do on the weekends, or what subcultures they used to be part of when they were younger.

Stuart

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-17 08:47 pm UTC (link)
Tangentially I'm reminded of Lawrence Watt-Evans' account of the year that Worldcon shared a hotel with the humanistic psychiatrists' association convention. He said that he's never been able to take the word "mundane" as synonymous for "non-fan" since. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]caesarslaad
2008-03-18 01:40 am UTC (link)
"If wearing a Green Lantern t-shirt is grounds for banishment to the gaming subculture basement then feel free to show me the door."

I saw a Green Lantern T-Shirt at Target. Sometimes, I wonder if geeks are so used to being geeks, they are afraid of losing their geek status. But think about it--in addition to the WoW in the truck commercial John mentioned, consider how many SF movies and shows we have to pick from compared to even 10 years ago.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]jeregenest
2008-03-18 01:51 am UTC (link)
The fact that in the Boston area (for example) I can go to a popular chain of music stores and buy red sox paraphernalia next to a bust statue of Doctor Strange next to that green lantern tee-shirt all while picking up some trendy hip-hop or whatever is passing for indie music these days really reinforces the fact that there just isn't much of a geek subculture anymore. Its like calling rock and roll a subculture.

Geek has become a commodity.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]jeregenest
2008-03-18 01:46 am UTC (link)
I prefer the idea of community of interest (or self-selected communities) to subculture. Gamers aren't really differentiated from wider geek subculture and frankly like most of geek subculture many of its trappings have been widely adopted by the mainstream. Instead I think it is more valuable to discuss what causes folks to form communities both locally and in a more widespread manner.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eyebeams
2008-03-17 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Mainstream culture has genre-mania, a hunk of WoW accounts and Avatar: The Last Airbender on TV. The broad geekcult doesn't seem to have noticed that it's one of the largest cultural segments but it is. Roleplaying in particular has experienced explosive growth -- but that growth doesn't have much to do with RPGs, Story Games or whatever you want to call them. Gary Gygax's death was presented as being important to *that* -- to the mainstream -- and less so to our little hobby.

Tabletop RPG play is what it is because of its size and to a lesser extent, because its format is about small group activity and isn't amenable to spectators. But every element of traditional roleplaying, from genre to specific activities, is represented in contemporary mainstream culture. This whole business to me sounds like nerds who want to reach back in time to justify themselves before disdainful late 80s early 90s peers, when back in 2007 that guy they hated is busy laughing at Leroy Jenkins and really, really doesn't give a shit.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-17 08:46 pm UTC (link)
"This whole business to me sounds like nerds who want to reach back in time to justify themselves before disdainful late 80s early 90s peers," This is clearly a lot of it. Heck, the Forge model begins with resentment of old GMs and Vampire. rec.games.frp.advocacy was at least resenting their actual play of the moment. :) I'm somewhat sympathetic in that I still hear those old voices in my head sometimes and I know that it takes work to deal with them. It's just that I also accept wanting to deal with them and working to do so as an important if boring part of basic maturity.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-18 02:46 am UTC (link)
There are a lot of gamer geeks who were never part of that late 80s early 90s Lambda Lambda Lambda subculture. Even those in a "subculture" might have been in a different one -- in the 80s D&D had metalheads and stoners playing it too. In the 90s there were a lot of goths into Vampire.

Stuart

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-18 02:53 am UTC (link)
Sure, but it's the same principle at work - responding to things that one gradually realizes were years or decades ago. Whatever the bad things might ahve been.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-18 12:43 pm UTC (link)
My point is that not all gamers, or subcultures involved in gaming had those "bad things" that they are hung up on. What was bad about listening to heavy metal and playing D&D in the 80s? Not much. Maybe they dislike censorship more than most... but that's not really the same thing we're seeing discussed now. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2008-03-18 12:44 pm UTC (link)
Dammit. That was me again.

Stuart

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-17 09:00 pm UTC (link)
Keith, meanwhile, is demonstrating a classic fallacy particularly common among educated members of the majority ethnic group, and among successful communities of minority ones: the failure to recognize just how much we all inherit. He's still writing in English. He's using LiveJournal rather than having coded his own weblog, and he's using HTTP rather than his own protocol. (I sometimes game with someone who DID write his own protocol, the RADIUS authentication protocol that went on to become a standard, so it's not an entirely hypothetical matter.) He display a picture of an image swiped from the persona Hunter S. Thompson developed, and his rhetoric is a mish-mash of shock treatments from various media. That's all precisely as derivative as the guy in the anime t-shirt playing D&D or Rifts exclusively, and structurally very similar when it comes to relationships with mainstream society and (most importantly) the overall system of global capitalism. He's making himself into the most useful kind of pawn for marketing, the kind who's sure he isn't a pawn at all, while continuing to reap the benefits of exploitation elsewhere in the system.

(Reply to this)


[info]bruceb
2008-03-17 09:05 pm UTC (link)
"This is not to say that gamers don't have their problems, but then so does everyone." This is the key thing, I think. I've noticed that a lot of people in one subculture or another are prone to thinking they understand the rest of the society better than they actually do. They can be quick to assume, first of all, that there are no big (or small) subcultures they're not seeing, and to discount the extent to which folks there feel just like the ones over here, and their guesses as to how people in the mainstream think are too often based on examples from the bottom, precisely the kind of stereotyping they object to when it's done to them. Learning to accept that I wasn't insightful as I'd like to think was hard; finding out that the world was full of many more interesting people than I'd thought was great.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]losrpg
2008-03-18 02:47 am UTC (link)
"This is not to say that gamers don't have their problems, but then so does everyone." This is the key thing, I think.

Exactly. The stuff that people point at as "geek social fallacies" and "bad gamer behavior" -- I see that stuff in my wine tasting group, mostly -- okay, maybe the wine crowd is better groomed than the average game conventioneer -- but the average gamer at a con is better groomed than he gets credit for IME, and the wine crowd certainly has a bunch of less-desirable behaviors that you don't see at a game con.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…