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August 31st, 2011


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04:19 pm - French essay on role-playing immersion
So Mike Pohjola posted a link to this essay in French by Vincent Choupat,

http://www.electro-gn.com/article-immersionnisme-1ere-partie-l-enfant-batard-des-theories-rolistes-80373168.html

I scanned it via the Google Translate version, but of course that is prone to huge misunderstandings.

The funny part is that the last section is titled "Kim 1 - Pohjola / Bockman 0." From what I can tell, he is referring that Bockman's adaptation of the Threefold Model for Scandanavian larp, where he substituted "Immersionism" instead of "Simulationism". Choupat seems to think that this was mistaken, in that while he accepts the Threefold Model divisions as useful, he feels that immersion can be a part of any of those styles - just different kinds of immersion.

I have been wondering for a while about what to say about the Threefold Model. I still think it was a good idea at the time, and I have the feeling that I should be moving past it to more nuanced distinctions. Still, it seems to stick around.
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[User Picture]
From:imnotandrei
Date:August 31st, 2011 11:53 pm (UTC)
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I find the threefold model very useful as a framework to start asking questions -- and one which rapidly becomes fuzzy when I start getting to the interesting bits. It is, perhaps, a Newtonian Mechanics-sort of view; accurately describing much of the World As Seen, but as people explore its nooks and crannies, more unusual stuff appears.

I keep meaning, for example, to write an essay on the Simulation of Choice, which fits the games I'm writing, and lands (it feels to me) midway between Simulationism and Narrativism; alas, time has not permitted.
[User Picture]
From:jiituomas
Date:September 1st, 2011 04:34 am (UTC)

It's a Classic.

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Your Model is still one of the most convenient ways for quickly pointing out to people that some clear preference differences exist, and for showing that that this has already been discussed for quite a while I think it's the best. I've referenced it in three academic works in the last six months. I you do make a follow-up, I doubt people will quote it that much, as this is the original. Loads of further dicussion on the subject has already been had on various fora, so if I were you, I'd happily stick to having produced the basis.
[User Picture]
From:jhkimrpg
Date:September 1st, 2011 04:43 am (UTC)

Re: It's a Classic.

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I guess that did come out a little whiny. I will happily stick to having written up a very referenced and important model that has made me internationally famous :-). Caveat: the core ideas in the model came out of discussion on rec.games.frp.advocacy, with particular credit to Mary Kuhner and Irina Rempt for the "threefold" name and distinction. I am proud of it, and happy that it gets so much attention.

I guess I have a subconscious expectation that discussion should have progressed more in the last 15 or so years. Then again, if I think over how long it took for meaningful analysis of film or comics took to progress, it was at roughly the same pace.

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